Comments on: gimme that returned thing. http://www.zerbie.com/2008/04/03/gimme-that-returned-thing/ crazy, some say Wed, 19 Nov 2008 17:30:48 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.3.3 By: Lindsey http://www.zerbie.com/2008/04/03/gimme-that-returned-thing/#comment-31 Lindsey Tue, 20 May 2008 10:18:13 +0000 http://www.zerbie.com/2008/04/03/gimme-that-returned-thing/#comment-31 nat, the idea of such an operator sends a bit of chill down my spine. The <a href="http://books.google.com/books?id=ij8lVWNqgDoC&pg=PA4&lpg=PA4&dq=%22consistent+renaming%22&ots=4Mxwv0h_Cp&sig=Fz51Ezj6aBUEHHlWdpNgno0kciE&hl=en" rel="nofollow">consistent renaming</a> problem is actually pretty hard even without this complication, and I think it would be really, really hard to implement it in a safe and predictable way. What if the name collides with a name the next level up? And so on. Also, Pam, my Python is awful, but how about just <code>print do_something()</code> ? It seems to me that it's not so much about scope as it is that in the first example, the <code>do_something()</code> function just never gets called. nat, the idea of such an operator sends a bit of chill down my spine. The consistent renaming problem is actually pretty hard even without this complication, and I think it would be really, really hard to implement it in a safe and predictable way. What if the name collides with a name the next level up? And so on.

Also, Pam, my Python is awful, but how about just

print do_something()

? It seems to me that it’s not so much about scope as it is that in the first example, the do_something() function just never gets called.

]]> By: nat http://www.zerbie.com/2008/04/03/gimme-that-returned-thing/#comment-12 nat Fri, 04 Apr 2008 18:18:18 +0000 http://www.zerbie.com/2008/04/03/gimme-that-returned-thing/#comment-12 Pam, naw, I didn't mean it in any practical sense. It was just an existential musing of sorts -- life, the universe and everything, if you will. I'm not even suggesting that the compartmentalized, strict paradigm of namespace and scope that I've experienced isn't a good thing, I'm just wondering if it's possible for it to be any other way. I think the idea was somewhat more half-baked than you might be giving me credit for. Pam,
naw, I didn’t mean it in any practical sense. It was just an existential musing of sorts — life, the universe and everything, if you will. I’m not even suggesting that the compartmentalized, strict paradigm of namespace and scope that I’ve experienced isn’t a good thing, I’m just wondering if it’s possible for it to be any other way.

I think the idea was somewhat more half-baked than you might be giving me credit for.

]]> By: Paul Hummer http://www.zerbie.com/2008/04/03/gimme-that-returned-thing/#comment-10 Paul Hummer Fri, 04 Apr 2008 17:00:14 +0000 http://www.zerbie.com/2008/04/03/gimme-that-returned-thing/#comment-10 Pam- Variable scope was a hard thing for me to grasp when I first started programming. When I started working in PHP, it made things worse... :) It's a difficult thing to explain to someone with very little programming experience, but a very valuable thing to understand, especially when you have a great language like python. Paul Pam-

Variable scope was a hard thing for me to grasp when I first started programming. When I started working in PHP, it made things worse… :) It’s a difficult thing to explain to someone with very little programming experience, but a very valuable thing to understand, especially when you have a great language like python.

Paul

]]> By: pam http://www.zerbie.com/2008/04/03/gimme-that-returned-thing/#comment-9 pam Fri, 04 Apr 2008 15:44:44 +0000 http://www.zerbie.com/2008/04/03/gimme-that-returned-thing/#comment-9 Do you mean, like, just declaring something to be global? Totally doable, but I feel our esteemed colleagues sending lightning bolts into my brain every time I even think about it. (That said, I'm sure there are good reasons to do it on occasion, but my usual reason would be, "I can't figure out a better way," which is not good enough.) Do you mean, like, just declaring something to be global? Totally doable, but I feel our esteemed colleagues sending lightning bolts into my brain every time I even think about it.

(That said, I’m sure there are good reasons to do it on occasion, but my usual reason would be, “I can’t figure out a better way,” which is not good enough.)

]]> By: nat http://www.zerbie.com/2008/04/03/gimme-that-returned-thing/#comment-6 nat Fri, 04 Apr 2008 15:12:56 +0000 http://www.zerbie.com/2008/04/03/gimme-that-returned-thing/#comment-6 This actually prompted sort of an interesting thought yesterday. Could you (would you/should you?) have some kind of operator (I don't mean in Python, just in general) that essentially popped a variable back up into the higher namespace? All of the languages I've used have been pretty strict about scope, I don't know if there are others that play things a little looser. Could you have a language without return values at all? hmm, I think I need my own blog... This actually prompted sort of an interesting thought yesterday. Could you (would you/should you?) have some kind of operator (I don’t mean in Python, just in general) that essentially popped a variable back up into the higher namespace? All of the languages I’ve used have been pretty strict about scope, I don’t know if there are others that play things a little looser. Could you have a language without return values at all? hmm, I think I need my own blog…

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